Interview with Jacko
Interview conducted by Wilhelm
Date online: February 6, 2001
So it seems we meet again Jacko! The most important thing people reading this should know first is what Dark Whispers is all about. Enlighten us.
Dark Whispers started back in late 1992. I had always wanted a chain mail vest, but after years of trying to buy one I got sick of trying to find someone who would make me one so I set out to make my own. I managed to buy some links from a Viking society and worked out a rough design and a few weeks later a vest was born. I had loads of links left over so I made gifts to a few friends just to get rid of the links I had left. Then a few weeks later a guy came up to me and asked me to make him an armband like the one I had made for a friend, I said "Sorry I don't have any links and it was only made to get rid of the links I had left". But more and more people became interested in buying items of chain mail so I got some more links and before I knew it I was busy with orders. I then thought to myself well if people where I live are interested, then so would the people around the world. So I put out some fliers through the underground (Russ Smith) from Black Tears Distr. and Warren Schofield who used to do all the Black Metal videos for the underground spread loads of fliers for me since then I have tried to build Dark Whispers into an anti-Christian Black Metal institution.
And the scene itself?
Back in the early 90's it was brilliant to be a part of the underground, but today Black Metal is used as an excuse to make money. People have forgotten what Black Metal was used for, to those of you who don't know Black Metal was used as a cover to hide Satanic terrorism and church arson etc. It was never about music never about making money, it was about fighting Christianity and wiping it from the earth.
Your outlook on life is very extreme, and you seem to hold quite a bit of animosity against Christianity and people in general. Has there been any event in your life that's motivated your way of thinking? Tell us a little about yourself.
Tell you about myself? Well that's a hard one to do. I class myself as a normal person. It's best to ask others what I'm like as I wouldn't know what to say I'm very complex and hard to work out. My rules are everyone gets one chance so treat me right- I.e. don't lie to me, rip me off or do anything to try and fuck me over and you will be OK. I can be someone's best friend or worst enemy, (people have moved away from the area they live because I was after them) nothing has motivated me towards the hatred of Christianity but the Christians themselves. They are so weak they would let people steal from them, spit in there face, to be took advantage of all because they believe in a story from a book, always smiling and forgiving. This just drives me wild. They use a book of lies to hide their crimes, they abuse women and children, steal money from the church and then they claim to be good people. Christians are supposed to help people, but if you went up to them in the street and asked them for help they would run a mile or pass you on to someone else. But my hatred has always been there since I was a child. I don't know why it just has. Maybe I was wronged in a previous life and the hatred came with it.
I know you study martial arts. Have you ever had the pleasure in applying your techniques to some unrelenting asshole?
I have given out more beatings than I can remember. The worst one I ever did was put someone in an intensive care hospital for 12 weeks, I was nearly charged with attempted murder but he dropped the court case against me (people always see reason when you have friends with guns). The last trouble that found us it was my girlfriend that led the charge she just flew at this guy and I was a heartbeat behind her. The guy just stood there, he knew I would have killed him if he even dared lift a finger to her. I took on two guys that were with him, But it was over really before it had chance to start.
Speaking of violence, there has been some rumors that you've committed several acts of terrorism and arson?! Tell us about this, explicitly.
For the benefit of the police you have the wrong person. I would never get into trouble, just look at my last answer to see I'm telling the truth. No seriously, I believe silence is the key to freedom. You also forgot the rumors about the murder I was supposed to have done. I could say I have done what Faust has done, then everyone would think I have killed someone and burnt down a load of churches, but when questioned Faust plays in a Black Metal band so do I. Faust writes to people on the Black Metal scene so do I. In that aspect I have done what Faust has done. I will let people make up there own minds, but I haven't done anything like that, if I did I wouldn't be so stupid to admit to it. It was people bragging about what they had done that got everyone arrested back in 93 Faust would have been free today if Grishnach hadn't gone off saying I know who murdered the gay guy. So bragging will only get you in prison so don't be stupid, keep your mouth shut things aren't done for glory they are done for a cause. But there are always rumors going round about me. I went away to Belgium to visit a friend and to deliver a chain mail vest I had made. When I got back there had been a murder and soon the rumors were going around I had used the holiday as an alibi to cover up the fact I had done it etc... I just take what I hear with a pinch of salt as a story is spread everyone changes a bit of the story, so as it goes around it becomes twisted more and more. I had hit a guy in a pub one blow end of story, but by the time the story had gone around I had broken every bone in his body, gone to his house and killed his pets then ran over his parents in my car. So rumors are rumors and you will probably hear more now since I've said these words. My final word on this it's just like the Salem witch trials; if you looked like a witch you got burned.
Do you support violence and murder? It seems many people who claim to be "extreme" aren't very violent at all. As a matter of fact, I've noticed they all seem to be quite ordinary people...
Yes, I support murder and violence but not in the way people would think. Someone once said to me violence isn't the only option but my answer was "It's what I do best". If I could talk my out of a bad situation I will but sometimes violence is the only way to get things done. Since meeting Tracy she asked me to try and be more understanding, talk instead of fighting, but I soon got fed up with this as people try to take advantage of you because your trying to back down. What I say to people now is walk away and forget about me and what's just happened because if you carry on you're going to wish you had when you have 10 people around you trying to work out where all the bits go. That usually works people used to go against that advice, but you only have to give somebody a good kicking and you soon get a reputation, so now I don't have to fight as I'm well known and the mention of my name is enough to back people down. (Better stop ego's getting to big) Murder all depends on the reason if someone has wronged you and they deserve in your mind to die then do it. People will always want to kill each other, which is good. I once said to a judge as I was being tried on public order offenses g.b.h (grievous bodily harm) resisting arrest 3 counts of assault of a police officer. That in the 12th and 13th century when 2 people fell out they would have a duel of honor, (the glove across the face pistols or swords at dawn) and the winner had restored his honor with the death of his opponent, I.e. You could say I don't like your coat and your wife's fat, the next thing you know you have a glove across your face and you have to fight at dawn to the death. Well, all this was legal because it was lost honor at stake. Well, as I said to the judge today that it is illegal to do as it would be classed as murder the law has been changed but the nature of mankind has not. People, no matter how civilized they think they are will always revert to the most basic instinct man has, which is to fight. I feel that I should have the right to kill an enemy and his friends and family (so there's no one left to try and claim revenge) if I feel I've been wronged by them.
What would be the ideal society to live in? Do you believe in any sort of "ancient order" or way of living like some other people do? Would total anarchy be the answer or must there be order?
Yet again I think this answer will shock. Most of the Black Metal scene would say total war anarchy, but that's just shock tactics to impress people. My honest answer is my ideal society is one where I could live off the land not pay taxes, hunt my own food and live my own life to how I see fit, not have to do a 9 to 5 job to pay bills etc. I would build my own house, live off the land, educate my children in life, not the bollocks they teach them at school nowadays. People are leaving school not even being able to read and write correctly. My daughter or son will be taught how to read and write by the time they are 4 years old and will work out math sums in their heads not rely on calculators. In any society there must be order (people are probably saying why) well you're all there thinking the fun you could have smashing things up and no one is there to stop you pinch cars etc. Kill someone and not be punished sounds cool, but the draw backs what if someone did it to you? ! You're asleep and you wake up and the 3 friends you had crash over your house have had their brains blown out. Wouldn't you want revenge? But could you do it? You're on your own now, no one to back you up against the gang that did it. Now you're easy pickings for the other gangs, who could you ask for help who would trust you? It's anything goes remember no rules. It's only fun when things are going your way. But in all honesty this question is to massive to answer. I could write pages on my thoughts on this one.
You've told me in the past that you'd like people to see you as a "key player" in the underground. This still holds true, am I correct?
That would be a dream come true to be remembered in the history of the Black Metal scene and to have my name along side Euronymous, Dead, Faust, in the same sentence. I couldn't imagine the pride I would feel. This scene needs heroes if I can use that word. The scene needs people who can inspire people to do stuff back in 91 when we had Dead, Euronymous etc. We looked up to them, put these people on pedestals. But every time I thought of quitting because things weren't going my way I would look to the sacrifices the others had made and it made me think they never quit so I wont, I will fight and win. Hopefully one day people will see that I have dedicated my life to this scene and worked towards the goals of the scene and that will inspire them to continue when they want to quit. I have done chain mail for the last 8 years and now I have started doing the record label as well. It's an underground thing, but yet again I do all the work myself I.e. artwork the layout of the artwork the copying of the CDs printing and putting the covers together cutting the fliers out and believe me when you do 12000 of them you really know what it feels like. And all for what money you say. Well no, for the love of Black Metal. I don't really make anything out of it, I make my costs back and about 10% which usually goes on new equipment to replace the stuff I wear out. I'm doing it to give bands the chance a big label wouldn't, as all the big labels want is cash and before you know it you have people telling you what to do with your own band, then you have contracts that say what you can and cannot do, so it's pull the line or your in court. Where's the fun in that? And the first thing is you have to sign the right to the songs you have written away. Fuck those people work hard writing songs only to have to give them to some record label that are out to make cash and to throw you away when there done and moved on to the next big fad. All the bands I have signed don't have contracts and are free to go at any time and take their work with them. They're free to stay with me as long as they're happy, if there's problems that cannot be sorted out and they want to go, then they go with my blessing. No "hey you still owe us an album do it or we will sue you" etc. The record label is run like a big happy family It's all done on trust and handshake.
While we're talking about "key players" past and present, you've told me explicitly you're a huge fan of Varg Vikernes! Maybe you could make him your martial arts training partner when he gets out of prison?
Ha, ha you know I love the Count. Well, love to kill him. For years I've wanted to kill the Count and to avenge Euronymous, and maybe one day it will happen. But I feel there are people out there who want him more than I do. It will be a quick way to the top of the scene kill him and your guaranteed a place in history. I feel though that the infighting between Euronymous and Count supporters should stop and reunite under a new rule (mine if people would follow but I doubt they would). The Black Metal scene is tearing itself apart. We need to stop fighting each other and focus on the true enemy which is Christianity. They're standing back and laughing at us. Back in '93 there were church burnings in the news every week, now It's who on the Black Metal scene is slagging who off.
Varg is obviously not your ally, but the man he murdered was. Tell us about your relationship to Euronymous and what he meant to you.
I would never say I got to know Euronymous, only people close to him ever really got to know Euronymous. But I got to know Faust really well. I have written to Faust since 93 and we are still in regular contact to this day we now e-mail each other. Euronymous was an inspiration to us all he was the leader of the Black Metal scene the best way to see what Euronymous and Dead were all about is to visit My web site www.darkwhispwers.co.uk as there is a tribute to Euronymous and Dead on the site and it was written for me by Faust. Believe me this is not easy as Faust doesn't do many articles anymore so I felt honored when he wrote that one for me.
People I've talked to over the past years say the scene was affected greatly upon his murder. Do you feel the same way? I can honestly say I never knew Euronymous, but if the scene relied on only one person, then well.........
Yes the scene was greatly affected by Euronymous' death. But one person doesn't make the whole scene, it's each and every person on it that makes the scene with out people buying CDs, t-shirts etc. a band would be nothing, (something some bands have forgotten) but the way Euronymous was killed by a brother affected the way people thought, back in the early 90's everyone trusted each other and it was like one big happy family, then after the murder everyone stopped trusting each other. and a lot of fake band wagon jumping bands invaded the scene to pick the bones dry of the next big fad. When Euronymous was alive he had everyone motivated and they were all scared to go against him look, at Samoth Mr. Evil back in 92. Euronymous dies and he turns out to be a big wimp who never claimed to be into it. Euronymous was the glue that held it all together in Norway after he died. No new king was chosen and people started to drift away from the dream. (What's the dream I hear you say) ! Well the dream was we were all waiting for the war against Christianity to take off church fires were becoming common place and things were escalating each week, but as soon as Euronymous died people lost heart and nowadays with Mayhem being like they are people are turning away from Black Metal and the new people who get into Mayhem don't understand what it is all about. The youth on the scene today have not been educated as to what Black Metal is about. The amount of kids I have heard say "I'm not against Christianity" sickens me. People who have nothing against Christianity have no place on the Black Metal scene, and before people say I'm an idiot look at the history of Black Metal and you will see I'm right. In my view anyone who wasn't apart of the scene back in 93 and before that has no valid argument against this point as you didn't live the tidal wave of hatred that was Black Metal. You didn't experience the loss of Euronymous you didn't have to watch as a once powerful scene ripped itself apart and became a joke, only if you went through all that, in my eyes could you argue with me against the above point. But most people I know who have done 12 years plus share the same view point as I do.
There is nothing more typical then a question about "your opinions on the scene of today", but hey it should be asked because I know you have a strong voice in this matter.
The Black Metal scene is fastly becoming a joke little children are running around in their Cradle Of Filth tops saying they're evil. But when someone has a go at them they back down from a fight and cower. Back in 92 we used to go out drinking wearing corpse paint and if people used to have a go at us we would kick off and fight anyone who would come at us. Myself and our drummer Mat von Crump have virtually smashed a place to pieces fighting for what we believe in. And people soon could tell the difference between a goth and a Black Metaller after a few heads were broken. Now days people seen to be pacifists with a if they leave me alone I will leave them alone attitude. Worthless I say It's time the Black Metal scene gave itself a kick up the ass and returned to It's former glory and if people don't want to fight for the Black Metal scene then leave the scene as you don't belong on it. Lets see a return to the old ways lets fill the pages of music magazines worldwide with the news satanic terrorism lives. Actions speak louder than words, we could stamp our place in the history books forever if people were prepared to fight. But I feel until the idiots have left the scene and moved on to the next big fad and the record labels have joined them the scene will stay weak.
Another thing I've noticed is that the whole Satanic Black Metal thing has quieted down drastically. this had been foretold. In the last days of that movement it was suggested that most of these bands would "burn out" leaving only the key bands such as Emperor, Marduk, Mayhem, Darkthrone, Satyricon etc... etc... but these groups have moved on and can't be considered underground any longer. and now the new trend seems to have arrived- ns Black Metal. what do you think of this?
Well, lets go through your list of bands. Emperor all going well, "In the Nightside Eclipse" one of the best albums ever then it all went wrong in my opinion, now look at the band. Samoth and Ihsahn now slagging each other off in the press that kind of thing needs to be sorted behind closed doors not used as a cheap publicity stunt to promote a new project. Marduk had it going well until the albums began to blur into the same track, they released way to much stuff in a short period and left themselves with no ideas left, now they are just jumping onto different topics playing at 1000+ miles an hour knowing it will sell. What does bondage have to do with Black Metal? Same as tanks, really record sales and to hear Legion talk nowadays he sounds like a rock star who really wants to hear he bought a Harley? Mayhem lost it after Dead died. Brave attempt by Euronymous, but I don't think even he understood that Dead could not be replaced. Attila would not have been my first choice in replacement vocals. I would have gone for someone like Dolk of Kampfar or Andreas Axelsson, first Marduk vocalist on "Dark Endless", Rietas who sang on The Black's "Priest of Satan" CD. Nowadays Mayhem to me are a joke. Maniac tries to be like Dead and fails and should have chosen a different name and not cashed on the one they are using. The music is technically sound but Mayhem was always primitive and raw and was more attitude, but alas they are giving the kids what they want. Darkthrone's still cutting it in my book. "A Blaze in the Northern Sky" one of the best, only thing that was disappointing was when Zephyrous left, as I love the two guitar harmonies they used to play it was almost hypnotic in nature also when they got the traitor Count to write stuff and release it, that sucked. I still don't play those tracks, but in my eyes they are holding out the strongest. Satyricon's first two albums were really good. "Walk the path of sorrow"! is an ultimate track. There finest moment in my view. At the gig people were chanting for the song but they wouldn't play it, shame they seem to be shying away from the older (better stuff). Nowadays low points- bragging they would fight anyone then making the mistake of slaging Nick Barker (ex-Filth) off and backing down when Nick stormed their tour bus. I also know a funny story about Satyr and a guy he thought was called "The lion", but I'm not going to make that story public. It's not fair on Satyr. But I did find it funny when we rang him up once and his mother told us he was taking his pet poodle "Astrix" for a walk. Also a story I was told by someone who was there at the time told me Euronymous used to kick a 15 year old Satyr and Frost out of Helvete because they used to piss Euronymous off trying to act hard and evil and that's why they slag Euronymous off nowadays. Music-wise they should have quit after the first two CDs, as this was their finest stuff. I don't see NS as a new trend. It's been around for years. I have photos of Hellhammer from Mayhem in full Nazi gear. He's really right wing and I have seen a pic of Samoth against a swastika, and I've known bands state on fliers that their music is for white people only. So I don't see it as a trend, it's just become popular again. My own views of NS Black Metal is it doesn't really bother me. People can listen to what they want as long as people don't fuck with me and I will leave them alone to do what they want.
Tell us a bit about some of your own bands you've been helping out through DS. Has there been any other's that you've taken interest in? And you play in a group called Embryon right?
I'm involved with a lot of bands throughout the scene and I believe I'm quite well known, as I've been on the scene for over 12 years. At the moment Tragedy Begins have released their first full length CD through Dark Whispers, and are planning to do a split CD release with a French band, Mistema soon. Alastor from Tragedy Begins has also arranged for a Greek Black/Death metal comp CD to be released through the label. Nyar from Stormgot Incarnate will hopefully be recording his first full length CD soon, and if he does work will begin on that in March/April. I think I have secured an ambient band who do a lot of keyboard work for a release but I cannot give the name of the band out yet. There's other plans but nothing sure yet so It's not worth saying anything yet on that. Embryon are no more, we split up due to the guitarist Crovore being a weak faggot. Not going to go into details because I'm not going to use it as promotion, but he crossed me so he's gone from the Black Metal scene to start some Judas Priest project. But myself and Mat von Crump have started to write songs for the new project called The Sins of Meldeve and we will be joined by Hoagy also ex- Embryon and Iou who brings a lot of musical talent. Don't know when things are going to be finished as I have a child on the way and need to spend some time looking after her.
Are there any plans for your future we should be aware of?
My future keep building Dark Whispers up so we can release more bands, and take more bands away from the scum big labels that treat people like shit. Try always to get people to open there minds and to accept the old ways of Black Metal, get them to read about the history and understand how the scene works thus to ensure a better future of Black Metal and not the childish money making scheme it has become today. Last thing as always survive the shit called life.
As always it's a pleasure to chat w/ you and hear some of your insight into the matters at hand. Is vengeance a passing feeling or is it eternal?
Vengeance is the one thing that is eternal. "Vengeance will never die". And one day when I am dust I hope I will have passed on Dark Whispers and the legacy I am trying to build. My plan as long as there is a Black Metal scene there will be Dark Whispers. Anyone has any questions feel free to write or e-mail, all letters will be answered.
Get in touch with Jacko and the Dark Wispers horde at:
PO Box 24
Web Site- http://www.darkwhispers.co.uk
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