The Metal Crypt - Anvil Interview

Interviews

Interview with vocalist and guitarist Lips
Interview conducted by Luxi Lahtinen

Date online: October 27, 2024

Thanks to tour manager Paul McGuire for setting up the interview and to Papu Marila for the live photos.

Canadian metallers Anvil (formed in 1978 as Lips) hardly needs any further introduction. The band has become an institution and they are known everywhere around the globe, thanks to the Anvil documentary, which saw the daylight back in 2009.

The band has released 20 studio albums during their career, which is a lot as not many bands are able to carry on their mission that long, let alone stay relevant. The band's latest album, One and Only, was taken out of the oven at the end of June 2024 and follows a sort of trademark Anvil template that leads you to think of only one band in the whole world.

The band's One and Only European tour reached Finnish soil on October 22, 2024, and yours truly from The Metal Crypt had a chance to get Lips around the same table for a chat, which turned out to be more than interesting, to say the least, on many levels.

ONE AND ONLY EUROPEAN TOUR 2024

Hey, Lips... how's it going? Feeling good to be on this long tour that you are currently doing, crisscrossing around Europe?

Lips: Thanks for asking. The tour has been going great so far.

How was your tour in England? Did you get crowded venues?

Lips: England was off the chart, just unbelievable. Packed every night, people going totally crazy. Same thing with Ireland and Scotland. Just absolutely incredible.

Has England always treated Anvil well?

Lips: In the early days, we didn't go there. After the movie it has turned into this.

Yes, of course. It did have a big impact on your success.

Lips: Absolutely.

Have any of the venues on this tour been completely new for you? Do you find it exciting when you get to play some new venue you haven't played before, or does it kind of scare you in that sense because you never know what to expect when entering a completely new venue?

Lips: Oh, it's not really something I worry too much about. We're adaptable to any situation. That doesn't become the concern. It's all about how many people bought tickets. Is anybody going to show up? That's the only concern really. The way that it's been going, that's not a concern either. Then it turns to other things like are we happy with the road crew or not? Are they bugging us?

22.5 HOURS OF PLAIN SUFFERING

Do you find going on tour more demanding nowadays than 10-15 years ago because we are all getting older, so it is physically harder and harder to do these longer tours?

Lips: Lips: No, actually. It's way more demanding being at home and doing nothing. Oh, yes. Nothing can make you feel worse or give you more dread than doing nothing. When you're out on the road, you're always busy. Time goes by really fast. Before we know it, we've already done about 20 shows and it's like, "Holy Christ, man. That went fast. Didn't feel like it." Is it difficult? No, I'm not going to be a typical whining, asinine musician who's going to fucking complain about working for an hour and a half a day. That's what it comes down to. Oh, it's so hard on the road. I had to work for an hour and a half today. What about the other 22.5 hours of sitting around waiting? That's the torture. It's not the work. When you do what you love, you're never working.

Sitting at the airport, doing nothing and just waiting for your next flight to go from place A to place B, so to speak...

Lips: Yes, that's the hard part.

Have you seen any differences in audiences over the years when touring here in the northern part of Europe compared to the rest of Europe? Do people behave differently at gigs here in Finland compared to some city in Spain, for example?

Lips: Oh, well. You know what the biggest difference is? The cost of living. In the north, in places like this, people have money. In places like Spain, they do not have money. What is the difference? When you go do the gigs, people buy merchandise, buy our T-shirts and our CDs. When we play in the north and in the south, they buy bootlegs because that's all they can afford. You go out and you go try to sell them a real legitimate Anvil T-shirt and they've already got a bootleg.

You're asking what the difference is? That's the difference.

Bootlegging has been a big problem for many years already...

Lips: Yes, absolutely.

... and the thing is you can never get rid of these bootlegs.

Lips: South America is notorious for bootlegs. Mexico and all those countries. Listen, man, when we play there, we go out and buy the merchandise because it's not like our own. We buy them as souvenirs. We don't make them like that and some of the stuff is interesting and cool. At the same time, it's lost money. Lost revenue to the band. Huge lost revenue.

What are you going to do, man? You can't start arresting everybody for buying it and selling it.

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE ANVIL

Anvil's latest album, One and Only, was released in June this year. I guess the album's title is a definitive statement that there can never be another Anvil when you decide to call it quits some day in the future, which, hopefully, won't happen any time soon.

Lips: Once it's gone, it's gone. Come on, is there Motörhead? What happened? Lemmy died. Is there a Motörhead? The closest you're going to get is Phil Campbell and the Bastard Sons when they do a Motörhead set. That's the closest you're going to get and it's not Motörhead.

Yes, that's so true.

Lips: Motörhead was one and only. Lemmy was one and only. Rob Halford is one and only. Ronnie James Dio is one and only. There are not 10 Ronnies. There are not 10 Lips. There are not 10 Dave Mustaines. There are not 10 Scott Ians. There's wannabes and copycats, but no one knows who they are or cares.

How was the making of One and Only? Did the songs come easily because you guys have your own signature template sound that makes Anvil songs sound like, well, Anvil songs?

Lips: Look, the whole idea and the way that I began, and all of my life has been about being unique. All of it. If you can't do that, you're going nowhere. One and Only was much more than just a statement, it's a philosophy. My philosophy has always been I must be different. I must create music that only I create. I must do things and be a person that is unlike anybody else. I have to be me. What am I going to do to be different? I'm going to play my guitar with a vibrator. No one does that. I'm going to sing and yell in my pickups. No one does that. You have to find your identity and that's what you are. That's who you are. That's how people identify you. If you don't have those unique aspects, you're never going to get anywhere, you just fade into the background. What's an example of that? Many death metal bands. The death metal stuff and all that, that has no uniqueness to the point where that's what they're actually trying to do. From my perspective, that's what it certainly comes across as. First of all, these bands come out and they put out an album that you can't read who the band is. You can't read the logo. Now how are you going to identify that? The guy starts singing and you can't understand a word that he's singing. There is absolutely no melody, so you can't recognize the melody or the tune. The names are all, in most cases, all made up names. You have made up names made up in a band that you don't know the name of, songs that you can't recognize. Where are you going? Where is that going to get you? All these bands, all these guys yelling and screaming and barking like dogs, how can you tell them apart from each other, especially if they're not singing melodies? There's no real tonal value that you can relate to or identify. There's no melody. My question, more than anything else, is what's the point? It's beyond my comprehension what that is all supposed to be or what it's supposed to mean. People can laugh at me and make fun of it. "Hey, man, the guy's a boomer. What do you expect?" Well, OK. Except without us boomers, you wouldn't even have an interest in playing rock music at all. Where did it come from? Us boomers. That's what Jimi Hendrix was.

LOTS OF BULLSHIT IS BEING SCATTERED AROUND

You have a song called "World of Fools" on this new record, which basically says we humans never learn from our mistakes and believe in all kinds of lies too easily that are out there on the Internet, for example, but never question them because we are either too ignorant or stupid or even both, right?

Lips: The problem is that a complete blithering idiot goes on the Internet and writes a bunch of bullshit and then you have thousands of people sharing that information without questioning it. As soon as you try to question it, you'll find hundreds of places where the bullshit is being backed by more bullshit. Where's the truth? Then the truth turns into whatever you want to believe. Once you go down that road, there is no truth.

The other problem is people with the intellect and people with the truth get overlooked and overshadowed by all the idiots. They're writing terrible things about your band. No. Idiots are writing something terrible about your band, not your fans. Your fans don't bother writing anything because they have nothing bad to say. Only people that have something bad to say, say anything, otherwise, why bother writing anything? You go on Blabbermouth and it's endless insults towards all the bands. That's because no one who has anything good to say bothers to write. Only people who have something bad to say, write. Usually with not a lot of intellect. It's easy to write something out of anger than out of love because you're more motivated when you hate something. That's why.

Do you think people should be way more alert about things they read on the Internet or hear from the news?

Lips: Well, you can't police it because if you police it, we lose our democracy. Plain and simple. Now having said that, we're destroying our own democracy with this. That's what we're doing just by abuse. It's freedom abuse. It's the same difference as a guy going on an airplane, wearing a shoe bomb. Everybody after that has to take their shoes off. We're losing our rights. You can't just walk on an airplane anymore because one asshole fucked it up for the rest of us. That is just the tip of the iceberg of everything that's going on in this world today. The cancellation of historical facts.

In our country, we had a guy named Dundas. Somehow, he was involved in making residential schools, which are basically concentration camps for indigenous people, for indigenous children. Because his name was associated with that, they want to change Dundas Square, which is in Toronto, into something else. They're going to change the name. Meanwhile, no one even knows who this guy Dundas was. Now you're saying change the name and they're teaching everybody that this guy's a bad guy so now we're going to change the name. Why even mention it? Why even go down that road? You're not going to change a fucking thing. It's not going to change a damn thing. In some cases, you can see the point. As an example, we had a prime minister, Sir John A. McDonald. He was notorious for the Indian act, the worst aspects fundamentally of how the indigenous people were treated. Well, there was a statue of him in the middle of where all the indigenous people live. It has to be removed.

Well, I can understand why it was removed.

Lips: That's understandable but not destroyed and not forgotten about. It needs to be removed. It'd be much like putting a statue of Adolf Hitler in Israel. It doesn't belong there.

Hah, yes, that gives you some true perspective.

Lips: Same difference, there are things that make sense. We have to do something about that but there's a lot of stuff that you can't do that with. Why are you doing that? You're going to start rewriting history. We don't like Napoleon Bonaparte so let's write him out of history and say that the battle at Waterloo never happened. You can't remove the history. How are we going to know how we got here if you start doing that?

INFLUENCED AND INSPIRED BY THE PAST

What kind of things keep you motivated and inspired to continue making music for Anvil? Do you check out any new bands, for example, just for your own curiosity's sake?

Lips: Well, musically I'm still influenced and inspired by the past because there is nothing in the present or even the recent present that influences me. I'd rather listen to Jimi Hendrix Are You Experienced album than listen to some death metal band. Sorry. It's just the way it is. No, I'm not going to get influenced from a death metal band. I don't like the music. If you call it music, that's a whole other issue.

I bet the Anvil fans are also a huge inspiration and motivation to continue writing music for the band...

Lips: Oh yes, absolutely. I keep feeding the fire. You've got to and it's all me. You know what I mean? It's because I want to and I love to and it still means something to me, and I care. I'm not just going through the motions. I'm looking for things that I like, that I feel are worthy. I care.

A STEREOTYPICAL ANVIL FAN - DOES IT EXIST?

Does of a typical Anvil fan exist, or would you say it's kind of stereotypical to say there's a typical Anvil fan somewhere who behaves like this and looks like that?

Lips: Well, actually that is the case. It's actually really fascinating after the release of the movie to see what people listen to Anvil. Every color, every age, every religious denomination, every human being could be an Anvil fan. You never know. What's even more remarkable is people come to see the Anvil and going to the concert is like going to Disneyland. We were in a movie, they showed the movie to their kids and the whole family comes to see Anvil. That's remarkable stuff. I've seen fathers and sons, I've seen fathers, sons and grandchildren at our shows. It's really remarkable.

A TRUE GAME CHANGER - THE ANVIL MOVIE

The movie was a really remarkable turning point for the band's career...

Lips: Oh, a huge turning point.

It basically changed everything for you guys.

Lips: It changed everything. Not just for me, but for the whole metal industry and genre. Everybody's put out a fucking documentary. The worst bands are figuring, oh, we just have to put out a documentary. It's not that easy.

To be really sincere with you, the Anvil documentary is still my favorite of all documentaries because it's so real. I have never seen a more real documentary.

Lips: That's exactly why all the other bands missed that point. That point is you don't go into a documentary like behind the music. You do the band's history in the first 10 minutes, and the rest of the movie is about what we are doing tomorrow. What are we doing the day after tomorrow? What are we doing tonight? How are we living? Let's record it. Let's make the movie in real time, doing real shit. Not all retrospective bullshit. Everybody knows the retrospect. Who are you going to start telling the story of Black Sabbath to that doesn't already know it? If you showed Black Sabbath in a movie trying to write songs and get it back together again, and maybe become friends again, that would be fascinating. We'd all watch it and go, "Fuck, that was amazing." Rather than, "Oh, and then this guy did that, he once did that, he once did that, they once did that, they had a song that went like that." What about, let's write a song and you can see how it's being written, rather than talk about it after the fact. Those are the differences that make the Anvil movie what it was. It's living life and recording life as it happens, rather than talking about everything in the past. The director didn't know what was coming next. Neither did I. That's the thing. How do you make a movie when you don't know what's happening next? Who's going to take the risk? That's why you're not going to see this ever happen again. No one is going to take that risk. That's a big risk. The thing is, you need a combination of so many things to make something successful. It's not just the story. It's not just the one person. It's a combination of a lot of different things. First of all, the Anvil movie was not made by a documentary company. It was made by my dear friend, who happened to be successful in Hollywood. When I was approached to make the movie, I knew what it was going to mean because it wasn't some fucking idiot with a fucking video camera. It's a fucking Hollywood director, right?

It makes a real difference.

Lips: The real thing. Somebody that worked with Steven Spielberg, not a nobody. A real somebody. My whole perspective was you picked the right guy. I've got a history that's unbelievable that I predicted how it was going to all work out. The failure back in the '80s was due to the greed of record companies. We had a record company in France that put out our first two albums on picture disc. Printed a million albums and sold them for a fraction of the price from the original label. Say goodbye to all fucking possibilities of being released in the United States. Therefore, you're fucked. What did that do? That stopped us from having a record deal for four of the most important years, '84, '85, '86 and '87. No record. What happened to Anvil? What happened? We got fucked. What did I think? I thought and what I predicted was somebody that grew up with Anvil would grow up and become either a record executive, or some other high person in the business in some way that's going to come and help me at that point. That is precisely what the fuck happened. All that time we continued through thick and thin. See, it's not just quitting and coming back. It's having done 12 albums before that movie. Oh, they weren't successful. They weren't successful? Twelve albums in? That's not success? What the fuck are you saying, man? Most bands don't even record three albums, never mind 12. How dare you say it's not successful? No, it's not Iron Maiden but then again, Anvil's put out more albums than Iron Maiden. How does that work?

Musically speaking, it's not the guy who sells millions of records because the guy who sells millions of records is lucky to have made five, six records. The guy who doesn't sell millions of records does 20 albums because you've got to do an album every couple of years to stay relevant. You're not a pop band and you're not popular. That's what the difference is.

ANVIL'S STILL RELEVANT

You really haven't had any gaps, album-wise, because you have steadily been releasing them for many years, which is very cool because the fans can never forget you when you are putting albums out every second to third year.

Lips: That's it. Having said that, the other problem is there's so many albums. Most people only own one or two Anvil albums. There's a lot of albums that they never own. It's not like one of the bigger bands, I got all their albums. There's only seven.

Yes, that's the point.

Lips: That's why.

What about next year? How much have you planned in the Anvil camp in 2025? Is one of your plans to get Anvil booked for some summer metal festivals next year in Europe perhaps and then write new music for your next album?

Lips: We generally don't even play festivals. I fucking hate them.

You mean these more mainstream, bigger festivals?

Lips: Yes, I can't stand them. I don't see the advantage of playing them at all. It's nerve-racking. It's never what it is on your own show. You never have control of the actual show like you do on your own.

Playing club shows is also way more intimate than performing at some festival with hundreds of other bands...

Lips: There are people that are there to see you. When you play a big, massive festival there's 20 bands. 1-2% of the people are there to see you and the rest are there to see one of the other bands. A direct reflection of what I'm talking about is the sale of merchandise at any festival. You've got 20 different shirts from 20 different bands. People aren't buying all 20 shirts. They're buying one of their favorite band. Are they going to buy mine?

As it turns out, not really. Even at a gig that has 100 people, you may sell more shirts to those 100 people than to 20,000 at one of those festivals. I'm just saying that is the reality.

That says a lot about how the demographics work towards the bands. You've got fans for each band. Very few people, or very few bands are fans of all the people, if any. You follow what I'm saying? The fans are dispersed because the bands are dispersed. I like this band; I don't like that band. I like this band; I don't like that band. Everybody in that crowd feels that way about different bands, about different things. It's never 100%. That's why I'm saying festivals are not really the greatest thing to do. It doesn't mean that they don't like you, it means that the people that don't like you are giving you a hard time. You're not going to win them over because they made the decision before you even started. They're not even going to listen. You're too busy throwing a bottle of piss rather than listening. These are all observations of our world and what it's like to live in it. You can doubt the things that I'm saying but go live it and then you can find out for yourself. That's how I see it.

In the early years, like in England, if you weren't a fan of the band, then you wouldn't throw stuff at the bands. Now, if you're not a fan, then you throw mud at the bands.

Do you ever write music on tour, or do you simply concentrate on touring?

Lips: Rarely. I may write some lyrics.

OK, but you never try to capture some melody part with a recorder whenever it may start haunting in your head...

Lips: No, when we're at home, every day is writing. No matter what the fuck. I sit down and write riffs. I have hundreds and hundreds of riffs. Hundreds of ideas. At any point, I can go through them and pick 12 and make 12 songs. At any point. They're the new songs. You always must be working. You always have to add to the pile, because eventually you're going to use up all the favorites. You don't just sit and write now, you write all along, all through it.

Almost like being into it 24/7.

Lips: Yes, whenever you come up with something, which is just about every time you pick up the guitar to rehearse or you're just sitting there playing. I record everything and I have hundreds and hundreds of ideas. There's never enough. You'll never finish the job.

It's like a never-ending job.

Lips: That's right. It's never-ending. Never-ending...

A THEME ALBUM TOUR - POSSIBILITY OR IMPOSSIBILITY?

Many bands have done theme tours for some of their albums, has this thought ever crossed your mind that you might do a tour which would be dedicated to one of your albums that you'd play from start to finish, in addition of some other songs in the set list, of course?

Lips: Oh, one of those. Haven't done that. We considered going out and doing a tour called "123" and doing the first three albums. We were going to get the original members.

What ended up happening was the guitarist was incapable. He was sick, not well, and had not picked up his instrument in 30 years. Smoked till he wrecked his lungs, and he's got an oxygen tank. He's not going to sing. If I can't do it with the original band, I don't want to do it. I'm not hiring other guys and trying to be the old band. Fuck that.

Yes, it's not the same.

Lips: It's not the same. No, man and there's no point. We play a good amount of old material anyway. The other truth that people don't realize is that 90%, if not more, of all Anvil albums were recorded as a three-piece. Everybody goes, "Hey, man, you were a four-piece band. You were better as a four-piece." We never really were. They think we were, but yes, when you see four guys in a picture, it doesn't necessarily mean that's what you're listening to. I could go one step further and wake up a few people. All Metallica albums are recorded as a three-piece. Kirk does not play rhythm guitars. James plays all the rhythms. That's like me. I do all the guitar parts. When we had the second guitar player, he'd do a solo here and there. That's it. You want the song to sound tight, you want the song to sound completely perfect and well recorded, you have one guitarist, one wrist.

Alright, that was all I had in mind. Thanks for your time, Lips, and all the best for your show here at Tavastia Club, Helsinki, tonight.

Lips: Thank you.

Other information about Anvil on this site

Review: Plenty of Power

Review: Still Going Strong

Review: Back To Basics

Review: This is Thirteen

Review: Anvil: The Story of Anvil

Review: The Anvil Experience

Review: Forged in Fire

Review: Anvil is Anvil

Review: Pounding the Pavement

Review: Metal on Metal

Review: Nabbed in Nebraska

Review: Legal at Last

Review: Impact Is Imminent

Review: One and Only

Interview with Anvil on December 31, 2014 (Interviewed by Luxi Lahtinen)

Interview with guitarist and vocalist Steve "Lips" Kudlow on March 22, 2016 (Interviewed by Luxi Lahtinen)