The Metal Crypt - Heathen Interview

Interviews

Interview with vocalist David White
Interview conducted by Luxi Lahtinen

Date online: September 8, 2024

Live pictures by Luxi Lahtinen

Heathen from San Francisco, California, is a thrash metal band that started out in the early eighties and gained a cult reputation due to being at the frontline of the whole Bay Area thrash metal scene for a long time (despite breaking up for 8 years starting in 1993). The band's first two albums, Breaking the Silence (1987) and Victims of Deception (1991), still enjoy cult status among thrash metal fans worldwide, and the band has been firing on all cylinders since reforming in 2001 and releasing their comeback album in 2010, titled The Evolution in Chaos.

Heathen's fourth album, Empire of the Blind, released in 2020, only strengthened their position among other Bay Area thrash metal bands, and put them on a European tour with Toxic, Exodus and Death Angel in July 2022 and with Overkill and Exhorder, they toured in Europe in April 2023 and with the same package they also toured in the U.S. in July of that year.

Heathen had never played in Finland, so when they announced two shows in Finland in August 2024, there was no chance yours truly would miss one of them.

I met Heathen's friendly and talkative vocalist David White in Helsinki, on August 18th, and sat down with him to have the following nice conversation...

FINLAND EXPERIENCE

Welcome to Finland, David! How was your gig in Tampere yesterday?

David: Thanks so much. The gig went very well. It was good. A lot of good bands and a great venue, great sound, big stage. A lot of fun. We had a lot of fun.

Did you watch any other bands performing at Speed Metal Party?

David: I watched a little bit, but we've been traveling a lot, so just trying to get some rest. We kicked back in the backstage area, and they had a nice sauna back there. We all used the sauna and just tried to chill out as much as we could. I got to watch bits and pieces of different bands' sets. It was cool. It was very cool.

How do you normally prepare for a single gig? Do you have certain habits that you always do before going onstage?

David: Yes, I do a little warm-up to get ready and maybe do a little exercise just to get the blood flowing and that kind of thing. It just depends.

THE CURRENT TOUR

You have had a good run of shows in Europe and the Middle East recently. What more could you tell us about this ongoing tour so far?

David: Like you said, we started off in the Middle East. We went to Dubai. That was the first show. Then we went to Bahrain. The show in Dubai was a Thursday night, which is a work night for a lot of those people. People come from all over the outskirts of Dubai. It was a good crowd. We had a great show. All the people that came were very enthusiastic because they don't get a lot of metal bands from outside of the country. It was a blast. Great venue. There was a restaurant in the venue and oh my God, the food was unbelievable.

The guy, Vinod, who took care of us for the show and everything, took us around Dubai that day. We got to do a little sightseeing. He took us on a boat ride. It was very, very hot. It was a very cool experience. It was really amazing to be in Dubai. Who would ever think that we would play heavy metal in Dubai? We did the show then we had to immediately get ready to go to Bahrain. We were in the airport for a long, long time, checking in all the baggage, everything. The first flight was only 20 minutes. A really quick flight. Then a six-hour flight to Bahrain.

We were stuck in the airport for so long but the hotel was nice, so we rested. The metal scene is a lot more established in Bahrain than it is in Dubai. Dubai is still growing. We had a sold-out show there. We had some good bands that played with us. It was pretty off the hook. A lot of people were stuffed in that place. We had a great show. We did a meet-and-greet, signed some autographs, things like that, took some photos. We had to haul ass and get out of there because we had to go and catch our next flight.

We had to make sure we got to the airport because we had to drive to Brutal Assault. We get to Brutal Assault, then we can relax. Because we were coming from the Middle East, we had to take a late spot on the roster for the festival. Behemoth was the headliner. We played after them, which they call the "deadliner" because you play after. They had two stages next to each other. It's right here and here. They play here, and they have a big show. Then we're ready to go immediately after they finish. We give them a little bit of time. They come off, and then we start our intro so that we don't lose all the people thinking that the show is over. We still played in front of a lot of people.

I bet thousands and thousands of people...

David: Oh yes. Probably 10,000 or something like that. I'm not sure. We had a killer show. I think we played our full set, or maybe we played an hour or something like that. That was really fun. It's such a blur now. We had to go to Belgium after that.

That was the Alcatrazz festival.

David: Yes, Alcatrazz. We headlined the stage we played. We didn't play on the main stage, but another tent. We had a great show. Lots of fans there.

The fans there were great. We had a blast. Then same thing. Right now, it's a lot of stuff, like you're driving, driving.

We did three club shows in Germany, Essen, Hasenbuck, and Hamburg. Then we went to Denmark. We played in Copenhagen. All cool club shows. All the venues took super good care of us. We had good crowds. A lot of Heathen fans because it's our show. Then we finish and have to drive forever. We leave at midnight from Denmark. We drive and drive. We have to catch a ferry because we drive through Sweden. I think we showed up at the ferry at 6:30 in the evening that following day.

That was a travel day. Then we catch the ferry at eight o'clock. We come over here to Finland. We drive up to Tampere and do the festival. Luckily, after that festival, we get to just stay there and sleep and rest. Then we drive down here, come back to Helsinki.

THE HIGHLIGHTS OF THE TOUR

What have been some of your highlights on this current tour?

David: Like I said, I think every day has been something different. For me Dubai and Bahrain were really special because we've never been there. Then Finland, we've never been here. It's very, very cool, especially being in the city here, it's such a beautiful city. I've always wanted to come to Finland. It would be nice to come here for a vacation and spend some time.

It's almost the end of the summer here in Finland right now. You are lucky because the weather is so sunny and warm at the moment and you can go out wearing your t-shirt and shorts, which is nice. The weather could be a lot of worse, with rain, strong windy conditions...

David: Oh, no kidding. It was really hot at the beginning of the tour in the Middle East. Even Germany was really hot. Denmark cooled down a little bit. Then, of course, we come here. It's nice. I'm from the Bay Area in California. This is very much like our fall. Maybe September, October, late October when it starts to cool off. A little breeze but still nice during the day. I live in Florida now. It's very hot and humid. I miss this. The breeze and the cool. I don't like to be too cold. This is nice. This is really nice.

You'll tour here in Europe until the end of August, and your last gig will happen in Madrid, Spain. Do you have any other extensive tours planned after this tour is over, or do you also have something planned for the American soil perhaps?

David: No. We did a month with Symphony X in the States. I think five shows were in Canada. Then we had a month off before we started this tour. We have a new album that we need to record. It's already written. We need to make the time to go in and get it done.

NEW ALBUM – WHEN?

So, you have all the songs finished for the next album already?

David: It's all finished. We have to record it.

That's cool news. Do you believe that you are going to enter the studio to record your next album at the end of fall or something...?

David: We just were talking about that last night. We need to get in very soon. As we get back in September, hopefully, we'll be in the studio by October. It's going to be that kind of a thing. I don't know. We have a live record that we're working on too. Zeus is the producer that did our last album. We want him to mix the live record for us. He's just been really busy with a project with Rob Zombie.

It's been a little hard waiting, but now he's done with that project. He said, "I have to finish this one thing, and then I'm going to start on that." Hopefully, we'll start having some live stuff coming to help everybody wet their whistle while they wait for the new album. We are looking to have a lot of activity as far as touring and everything next year.

Can you already tell how your new material compares to the songs on your previous album, Empire of the Blind?

David: I would say it's different. We've always had different progressions of things from one record to the next. I think there's going to be a lot of cool surprises, a lot of heavy, great guitar playing. It's going to be a lot of cool drum stuff in there and a lot of cool melody vocal stuff but some heavy things in there. It's hard to express until we actually go in there and start laying things down.

I definitely feel like it's going to be an acceleration and an evolution as a band still and moving forward. Hopefully, it'll turn out amazing like we think because we've been demoing things. Hopefully, the fans will dig it. We'll take things to another level and have some tour stuff next year and stay busy, keep this train rolling.

OF THE BAY AREA THING

As Heathen has always been an integral part of the Bay Area thrash metal scene along with such names as Exodus, Death Angel, Vio-lence, and so on, how would you say the Bay Area scene has changed over the years since its heyday?

David: Everybody just got older.

[*laughter*]

David: There's a lot of new bands, and a lot of the original bands stopped playing during the '90s when grunge was really the most popular music at the time. Thrash metal, especially in the States, just wasn't happening. When everybody in the Bay Area got back together to do a benefit concert for Chuck Billy and Chuck Schuldiner, we did the Thrash of the Titans. Heathen reformed, Death Angel reformed, even Vio-lence, I think they reformed for that, Forbidden, Exodus, too. Then it was like a rebirth. For some reason, it just clicked, and then everybody started saying, "Oh, let's do this again. Let's do this again."

It took us a little while to get going as far as getting new songs and new record. We finally did, along with Death Angel and Exodus. Now, it's at a different level where everybody's older, and people have moved around. With Heathen now, we have members all over the globe. Some of us still live in the United States. We have two new band members. One lives outside of Ontario or Toronto, and then our drummer is from Vancouver. To pull that all together has to be very strategic. I know Exodus has that, too. Jack lives in Nashville. They pull together for rehearsals and get ready to tour. Everybody's trying to stay busy and do this while we can and while there's a demand for it. Heavy metal has been really having a nice resurgence for the last 10 or so years. When Gojira did the opening ceremonies for the Olympics, it was like a crowning moment. I was like, "Look at this." This is on the world stage, and they brought it, and it was incredible. I was incredibly proud of them and of the genre.

THE NEW GUNS KYLE AND RYAN

What can you tell us about these new guns in your band, Kyle and Ryan, and how did you actually find them to be a part of Heathen?

David: Kyle Edissi plays guitar with us. He has his own band called Invicta and they play technical death metal. I don't know how he connected with Kragen, but Kragen was trying to help him organize things. When Covid happened, and we couldn't tour in 2020, everything came to fruition in 2022.

Lee was unable to do the tour. We had to find another guitar player to do the tour that summer. Kyle knew we were getting ready to go out on the tour. He said, "I'll sell t-shirts. I'll be a roadie, whatever you guys need." We were auditioning a couple guitar players. Kragen said, "Well, maybe you could audition. Maybe we take you and you play guitar." He won the job. We took him on the road. He definitely understands what it takes. Even though he's young, he's pretty wise for his years, beyond his years. He's been with us since then.

James DeMaria was our drummer on the new album. He did a lot of touring with us in '22. Unfortunately, things didn't work out with Jim. We had met Ryan when we were out on tour in the States. We liked him a lot, and we gave him an opportunity to audition. He played very well. He's been playing with us ever since. He's growing with us, but he also has a band. He plays in a band called Aggression. They're also a Canadian band.

They joined us on the "Death to All" tour in the States. That was right after we got back from the Symphony X tour. He jumped right in on that tour, which was another big tour. All of us are trying to stay active. For me, Heathen is the only thing that I'm doing. When I'm home, I have a family life there. I have other things that I do. I'm a swim coach and a swim instructor. I love what I do and try to stay grounded.

I'm older now. I'm not trying to do 50 million projects. Heathen is enough for me. I did do a festival before we started this tour, a band called Gutter Creek, which is a Canadian band. My friend Matt Hanchuck asked me if I could fill in because their singer couldn't do the festival. It was a Louder as Hell Open Air Festival in Canada. I worked on the songs as much as I could and then flew up to Canada, did the festival. Then flew to Toronto and then met all the Heathen guys, and we started rehearsals for this tour.

THE BAY AREA ALWAYS STRIKES BACK

Have you ever talked about a tour with some other Bay Area thrash metal bands like Exodus and Forbidden along with Heathen? That bill would be such a dream come true for many thrash metal fans around the world, no doubt...

David: We did. In '22, we did a tour on our own, and we took Toxik out. That was because James DeMaria also played drums for Toxik. That was a one-month tour, and then we went back out with Exodus and Testament. I think we did 30 shows with Exodus, and then some of those shows were with Testament, too. There were some festivals, and some of the festivals had Death Angel and Sepultura. There was a lot of Bay Area stuff. We went to South America. We did one festival with Vio-lence.

Forbidden is just now getting out there. They have done a bunch of festivals, a bunch of one-offs and a couple of gigs here and there. I think they're done. I think today was the second day of Dynamo. Craig (Locicero) put together the Bay Area Interthrashional. It's like a bunch of different players, and they're playing music from the Bay Area bands.

They're representing that. I think that they might be done, and then maybe they're going to do a new record. I don't know what their plans are, but we're open to whatever. Like I said, Exodus took some other bands out this summer. They're out in Europe as well. We did this on our own. We had some festivals involved. Even with Alcatrazz, Exodus was there. Forbidden was there, I think, on the first day, on Thursday. A lot of the Bay Area bands are out. Sadus played Brutal Assault. Forbidden played Brutal Assault. We're all around. It would be cool if it was a big package, but then it'd be very difficult.

Indeed. It takes a lot of time to put a tour like that together with 3-4 bands, due to different schedules...

David: A lot of egos, too, like who's going to play first, and it's like, ah fuck...! Honestly, we try to concentrate on what we do and hope a good tour comes along like when we did Symphony X. That was out of the blue, the offer to do the Symphony X tour. They're not a thrash band, but they're a heavy metal band, and they're prog heavy metal. They were great to tour with. They brought a really different audience. Then, of course, we brought people to those shows, too, but we made a lot of new friends. It was good for us. It kept us on our toes because those guys, they're super pros musician-wise. My band, all the guys that I play with are top-notch as well. It's nice to show that prog crowd what this metal band can do. They talk about thrash metal all the time, but for Heathen, we got some elements where it's fast, blah, blah, blah. I just consider us a heavy metal band. I don't think we really want to be in a genre where it's thrash metal, speed metal, black metal, because we're just going to write songs, and, however, it comes out is how it's going to come out.

Putting a band under a certain tag may limit creativity as well...

David: Sure. Yes, because we're not afraid to do a ballad or do things that are a little different. We want to be able to do that. We do concentrate on melody, and some bands don't do that. Even some of the great death metal bands where the music is just amazing, but then you have this crazy vocal stuff. People dig it, and that's just the genre, but there's not a lot of melody.

HEATHEN GOING SYMPHONIC?

Heathen's future is unwritten, but is there something special that you'd like to achieve personally with Heathen someday?

David: I would love to see us get into a situation where we could go out with a bigger act so that we can be seen in front of even bigger audiences to show what we can do because I feel like we're getting a lot of exposure. We put in for the Megadeth Tour this year, but we didn't get it, Mudvayne got it. We put in for the King Diamond Tour. We didn't get that tour, but lots of bands put in for the tours. When Metallica went out with Ozzy, that was gamechanger for them because that put them in a higher echelon.

Once they got there, they just didn't look back. I'd like to see that. That would be fun, just to be able to have the band really find more success. I thought this way before Metallica ever did it, but I always thought it would be so cool to have the band play with a symphony and do some really cool Heathen stuff because a lot of the songs we do are already very symphonic. That would be a dream come true for sure.

I guess that was all I had in mind for this chat, so thanks a lot for your time, and all the best for tonight's show here in Helsinki as well, despite it being Sunday. Fingers crossed a decent amount of people will show up...

David: They keep coming in. Thank you for the interview, brother.

Other information about Heathen on this site

Review: Recovered

Review: Victims of Deception

Review: Breaking the Silence

Review: The Evolution of Chaos

Review: Empire of the Blind

Interview with bassist Jason Viebrooks and guitarist Kragen Lum on March 1, 2015 (Interviewed by Luxi Lahtinen)